|
JCapper Message Board JCapper 101
|
| Home |
Register
Log In |
| By | Can JCapper do this? | |||||
| Windoor 5/17/2011 5:31:29 PM | Hello all, I’m new here, but have been reading the forum for a month or so now. Sorry about the long post, it always seems to happen:) I have the “Silver” program with thoughts of upgrading, once I understand how to use it properly. Maybe someone here can answer a few questions I have. I have been looking for a software program for a very long time, to answers some what if scenarios I have. I have found an Excel spreadsheet app that looks very promising, but will need quite a bit of tweaking to do what I want. I am actively pursing a resolution here, but I have to rely on someone else to add the filters I require. Most of all this, (Access, Excel, and database handicapping in general) is way over my head, and though I’m trying to learn, I’m afraid it will take years of study to accomplish my goals by myself. Jeff’s JCapper software was also high on my list of things to try, as it is structured in a way that I am sure can work for me, if I can get it to use the filters and report summary I require. I am currently a “Silver” subscriber and have spent the last month getting to know the program. I still have much to learn. The list of filters is quite amazing, but so far I have found only four of the twelve or so factors I deem important. I have already sent an E-Mail to Jeff, outlining the type of ‘interface” or “PP matrix” (not sure if that is the right terminology) I would need, along with the ability to use Boolean operators to make the queries I need to qualify a horse for current form and form cycles. A hit rate for exotics with average payouts would be nice too. It also must list the number of races where more than one contender qualified, (I often play more than one horse to win) and the ability to pull these races (ones with multiple contenders) as a separate starter history table for further analysis. Maybe I can find a separation tool that doesn’t destroy the long-shot play. Edited to remove questions that have already been resolved. Regards, Windoor ~Edited by: Windoor on: 5/17/2011 at: 5:31:29 PM~
| |||||
| Charlie James 5/13/2011 11:23:00 PM | --quote: "The summary report would need to break out the races for what I call the “Seven” primary factors. This is mandatory for me for any type of play. If you are not doing this now for your own plays, I highly recommend that you start. The answers here can amaze.--end quote Betting thoroughbreds is a pari-mutuel endeavor. That means it's you vs. them -- them vs. me -- me vs. you. To that end, imho - those among us intent on making a go of this wonderful game had best find a path not too heavily traveled. I've been an extremely happy Jcapper customer since 2004. Even though Jeff has shown me how to use factors like cpace, form, wobrill, rv, formcycle, and mline to make udms capable of generating profits -- I've always sought out my own path. Long before I ran into Jeff, I used things that weren't in the original program -- things Jeff graciously added at my request: xthstartmeet, xthstarttrainer, xthstartlasix, class shift (purse value), sire, dam, siressire, damssire, etc. -- [combined with trainer, rider, owner, class descriptor, meet, those can be real difference makers.] Windoor -- looking at your 7 factors there are only 2 I see that aren't currently in the program (to the best of my knowledge.) Allow me to make an educated guess the rest of what you are asking for already exists in Jcapper. The 2 things not there yet are: 1. An indicator to delineate synthetic from natural surfaces. Imho, this isn't really necessary. Most of us manage to navigate the waters using a list of track codes in udms for cases where synth vs. natural matters. [WOX-APX-PID-GGX-HOL-DMR-TPX-KEE are currently the only track codes using synths. -- All other track codes are natural. Hint: Synth track cond is always ft -- never my, sy, etc. don't ask me why.] 2. Race conditions. Jcapper does have filter codes for state bred vs. open -- but to my knowledge does not have codes for nw2, nw3, nw4, etc. (These later conditions I've been doing by hand.) Jeff, my 2 centavos fwiw -- I know we've had this discussion before. The starterstoday and starterhistory tables are for all practical purposes full. I have the latest version. Opening my j2 mdb file in access and looking at the starterhistory table in design view I see 3 unused slots. Looking at the starterstoday table I see just 1 open slot. Please consider adding (It goes without saying I'm willing to pay an hourly rate for your time) the following data items: 1. claiming price (today) 2. claiming price (last out) 3. race conditions (nw2, nw3, nw4, etc. today) 4. race conditions (nw2, nw3, nw4, etc. last out) ********************************* I know -- that's 4 data items (only 1 open slot.) Here's how (I think) this could be handled: Could the above data items be made part of the available sql f-factors? I'm willing to bet there are at least a few jcappers among us who have chosen a pari-mutuel path less traveled -- and would be willing to replace something currently sitting in say slot #'s 17, 18, 19, and 20 (that we might not be using) with one or more of the above data items. Thanks in advance for your consideration. PS. Windoor, welcome to the forum.
| |||||
| Windoor 5/17/2011 5:25:01 PM | Needless info that just takes up space. ~Edited by: Windoor on: 5/17/2011 at: 5:25:01 PM~
| |||||
| Windoor 5/17/2011 9:28:00 AM | Ok, obviously I need to spend a little more time with the program. I see now, that I can indeed break out the data for most all of my categories. I did get one of my long shot spot plays to run (missing just one factor) and the results look quite promising for the 1st quarter of the year 2011. Using select tracks, the total plays are not enough to validate, but interesting never the less. Data Summary Win Place Show Mutuel Totals 900.60 583.00 497.30 Bet -424.00 -424.00 -424.00 Gain 476.60 159.00 73.30 Wins 42 74 102 Plays 212 212 212 PCT .1981 .3491 .4811 ROI 2.1241 1.3750 1.1729 Avg Mut 21.44 7.88 4.88 Ending BankRoll: $40,770.70 Starting BankRoll: $1,000.00 High BankRoll: $41,170.70 Low BankRoll: $903.00 Bet Percentage: 0.0500 Max Bet: 200.00 Now if I could just get Jeff to include the factor set I require, I would be very happy. An open invitation: Jeff, I would be willing to share a highly ranked spot play with you, if you would consider working with me, to get the filters I require to work within the program. Regards, Windoor:
| |||||
| jeff 5/19/2011 9:00:28 PM |
I'm really close to publishing something closely related to that. For some time, I've wanted a Data Window R&D tool for vertical exotics play - specifically the ability to break Data Window query results out by finish position. I've created a new item in the Data Window's factors drop down. It's labeled "BY FINISH POSITION." When selected, this causes Data Window output to be broken out by official finish position. Here is what the new report looks like:
` ` Notes: * For those who are interested, in the above query, factor F03 is JCapper FormRating. * Note the strike rate in the win slot for top ranked horses like those flagged by the above query. Then note the strike rate for the same horses in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th slots. The difference in win prob vs. prob for 3rd or 4th is significant - and should be given consideration by those of you who play vertical exotics. * Please don't call or email to tell me that BY FINISH POSITION isn't visible in your Data Window. What I'm describing above hasn't been released yet. I expect to publish this as part of a new program update - ALL versions of JCapper - within the next day or two. -jp . ~Edited by: jeff on: 5/19/2011 at: 9:00:28 PM~
| |||||
| jeff 5/19/2011 2:27:54 PM |
The ability to do this already exists in JCapper... in sql mode. First: races where more than one contender qualified... 1. Of course it falls on you to first create UDMs that identify your "contenders." 2. From there, in sql mode, the next step would be creating sql expressions that cause the Data Window (and The Profile Marker on race day if you want it) to point out horses flagged by multiple UDMs. The technique of choice is using parenthesis characters to wrap lines of sql expressions in such a way that JCapper output will show you the intersection(s) of multiple UDMs... or in layman's terms: Combining Multiple UDMs. Here's an an example illustrating how to do this: Combining Two or More Separate UDMs in SQL Mode: To combine sql expressions from two distinct UDMs and see results in the Data Window for starters selected by both UDMs, use the following strategy: SELECT * FROM STARTERHISTORY WHERE (paste all of the factor conditonals from the UDM Definition of the first UDM inside of this first set of parenthesis characters) AND (paste all of the factor conditionals from the second UDM Definition inside of this second set of parenthesis characters) What if you want to create an OR conditional between the two UDMs... and see Data Window results for starters selected by either UDM? Just replace the word AND used above to separate the two UDM Definitions with the word OR. -jp . ~Edited by: jeff on: 5/19/2011 at: 2:27:54 PM~
| |||||
| ryesteve 5/20/2011 9:41:23 AM | I'm not sure that'll do what he's looking for. The way I'm reading it, your SQL will output horses that qualify on more than one UDM... but I think he's looking for races where >multiple horses< qualify on UDMs
| |||||
| Windoor 5/20/2011 10:25:43 PM | "I'm not sure that'll do what he's looking for. The way I'm reading it, your SQL will output horses that qualify on more than one UDM... but I think he's looking for races where >multiple horses< qualify on UDMs " Correct. I often have more than one qualifier as I rarely "Rank" horses, but rather look for horses that have shown a specific pattern that I look for. If other factors and the odds are good, I just play both of them. I have been known to play as many as three to win in the same race if the odds are good. I have one "spot" play that I use with other factors that works quite well for me with the win wager. As a stand alone play there are often multiple horses that qualify. I believe this could work very well with the Superfecta as this "type" of horse is very often on the board. Sometimes at outrageous odds. Redboarding or not, I have one race marked with five contenders, and a box would have hit the 50K super. This sparks enough interest to do some research, but pen and paper takes a very long time. I realize I have a unorthodox style of handicapping, and finding the right software program to do what I require is going to be difficult. But that is also why I can average nearly 7 to 1 (over 18 months) as an average odd. One day I will have the software that will answer these type of questions. Regards, Windoor ~Edited by: Windoor on: 5/20/2011 at: 10:25:43 PM~
| |||||
| ryesteve 5/21/2011 10:31:46 AM | I think your best approach to acquiring the software you need would be to build it yourself (either directly, or in collaboration). Your approach sounds very specific and individualized, and I think you will find that most handicapping products have been born via the developers' desire to automate HIS approach (much as what you'd like to do). It may exist, but I'm not aware of a product that is intended as a generic, wide-open sandbox from which each user can build his own approach. One advantage to JCapper is that it generates output files (both for historical data and daily handicapped cards) that are completely accessible and can be used as input files for external software. This would enable you to generate reports and do analysis that are outside the scope of the JCapper's data window and calc races output. ~Edited by: ryesteve on: 5/21/2011 at: 10:31:46 AM~
| |||||
| Windoor 5/21/2011 5:36:48 PM | I would agree for the most part, but J/Capper is the closest I have seen that has the “capability” to do what I desire. As far as building it myself, that’s just not going to happen. I’m much too old to learn this stuff from the ground up. It would take me years (if at all) and I really don’t have that many left. I have been reading a lot about Excel and Access and am slowly beginning to understand the basics from a user’s point of view, but when I look at VBA and complicated formulas I quickly become lost. Collaboration is definitely a possibility and I have already offered a very good “spot play” (see above) for some assistance from Jeff. To share more than that would require a level of trust that probably is not going to happen with someone you met on the internet. Still? I have already shared a very nice play that has proven its worth over time. Now all is silent on the other end. Go figure. As far as importing the data fields that I want: I would think the Platinum Program could benefit from something like this. I imagine it as such. Create a user form that would allow the selection of any of the 1400+ fields in the HDW file. I’m not sure of the limitations as to how many can be imported. I know that was an initial problem with Excel and the 256 column limit. (No longer a problem with the new versions) Funny how you couldn’t import all of a horses records in one row, but could import all into one cell, and with the use of formulas to count commas, spread in out over 5 or 6 rows to make the data useable for formulas to perform calculations. A neat trick. In any case, allow the user to pick and choose the fields necessary to make up a “user defined factor” One for the race header that all horses in the race would reference and one for each of the horses last six starts. A spot play of mine would require most of the racing header as to date, track, distance, surface, class (I would like to use a look-up table of mine for a value number here) claiming price, M/L odd, weight, and so on. Also the complete racing lines (except for company and comment line) of the last six races. I could probably get by with the last four if need be. My form cycle test needs to look back at least four races and requires certain values as to surface, class, position on track at all calls, speed ratings, pace ratings, track variant and weight carried to pass the test. Then move to a formula builder box which one could use Boolean operators to build a formula, have it tested, and then saved as a “User Factor” Sounds doable to me, but I know next to nothing as to what would be involved in creating such a thing. Maybe it is just wishful thinking and I should be satisfied with what I have. Regards, Windoor.
| |||||
| jeff 5/23/2011 4:14:04 PM | --quote: "As far as importing the data fields that I want: I would think the Platinum Program could benefit from something like this.--end quote Agree. I recently posted the following in this thread in the private area of this site: http://www.jcapper.com/MessageBoard/TopicReader.asp?topic=1003&forum=Private --begin snip-- There seems to be some interest in making this available. To that end, I've spent some time over the past few days thinking about how best to accomplish it and have performed some preliminary design work. I came up with (what I think is) a straightforward way to do this. I'm leaning towards adding new functionality to the .JCP and .XRD file build routines found in the HDW File Mgr. The expanded routines would have the ability to write the complete contents of both a .JCP file and an HDW Charts Result file to a pair of Access tables. A few bullet points: *Writing JCP file data to a table would add a few seconds extra time to a .JCP file build routine. I'm envisioning the need for two additional settings in the Enhanced Settings Module for toggling the new write to table routines on or off. *Just because you now have 1435 new data fields per horse sitting in a new table doesn't mean that the new data fields or the new table can be made available inside of JCapper's Profile Marker. (That would entail a major rewrite of the program.) The intent here would be to make the data available in table form to those who want to work with it outside of JCapper. Cut and paste from my design doc:
--end snip-- -jp .
| |||||
| jeff 5/23/2011 6:29:46 PM |
and
I have no doubt the Platinum program could benefit from that (if marketing new copies of it were my primary focus.) Please understand that my primary focus is using the technology - not selling new copies of it. (Truth be told I've been considering taking the Platinum program off the market for some time now.) The best I can offer at this time would be to create the write to table routines described above (inside of the HDW File Mgr.) This would "expose" downloaded HDW race and charts data in table form - where it could be imported along with derived JCapper data into 3rd party apps. (Windoor, my guess is that another developer could be hired to import your wish list into a 3rd party app or spreadsheet.) I'm also adding the requested race level info (NW2L, NW3L, etc.) to my list of new adds (and will get to them as soon as is reasonably possible.) Windoor, you mentioned that you have your own class/race ratings either sitting in a lookup table - or that can be calculated by a routine hitting a lookup table. I am currently working on a similar custom add for another Platinum customer. No not class/race ratings but adjusted speed figs calculated based on numbers read from a lookup table. The adj Speed Figs are then inserted into .JCP files during the file build routine inside the HDW File Mgr. Please know that having your class and/or race ratings inserted into .JCP files during a file build routine instead of HDW's race rating is something that's doable as a custom add (once other programming projects that I've already promised to deliver are closer to completion.) Respectfully, -jp . ~Edited by: jeff on: 5/23/2011 at: 6:29:46 PM~
| |||||
| jeff 5/23/2011 8:48:40 PM |
Here's my thinking (bear with me) on this... Armed with a sql UDM based on an OR conditional involving multiple UDM defs, it's possible to run the UDM through the Data Window while exporting query results to a quick index file. From there, it's possible to perform further R&D using the quick index file - which contains data only from races where multiple horses were flagged by two or more UDMs. In sql mode, the quick index file will only contain limited info - but it's still possible to perform useful R&D. If you want the complete array of playlist file data to work with... In playlist file mode, it's possible to run a single UDM through the Data Window while outputting query results to a quick index file. From there, it's possible to run a second UDM through the Data Window against the quick index file - and output query results to a second quick index file. The resulting second quick index file will contain data from only those races where both UDMs found qualifying starters... It won't contain data for the other horses in those races (You'll need to go outside JCapper for that.) but it would give you the ability to perform R&D on UDM selections in races where other horses were selected by other UDMs. Using the above strategy, it's possible to create (successive) quick index files containing starters from races where horses were flagged by as many UDMs as you want. -jp . ~Edited by: jeff on: 5/23/2011 at: 8:48:40 PM~
| |||||
| ryesteve 5/24/2011 7:32:31 AM | I'm still not following. If you output the results of "UDM X" to a quick index and then run "UDM Z" against that, you're not going to identify races where one horse qualified under UDM X (only) and another horse qualified under UDM Z (only). edit: I think I see what you're getting at... this would allow you to research and create UDMs where a UDM selection already exists, but you're still restricted to the horses that are already identified by a UDM, rather than any horse in the race in which a UDM selection exists. Big difference. And no help in a case where it's just a single loose UDM and a desire to see how many hits there in a given race. It sounds like the only way to do this within JCapper would be in SQL mode, once a UDM's output table has been built, run a 2nd query on this to generate counts for each unique combination of date/race/track, and then join the counts back to the original UDM SQL output and make that field available as a factor breakout. ~Edited by: ryesteve on: 5/24/2011 at: 7:32:31 AM~
| |||||
| Windoor 5/24/2011 8:43:49 AM | --quote: "It sounds like the only way to do this within JCapper would be in SQL mode, once a UDM's output table has been built, run a 2nd query on this to generate counts for each unique combination of date/race/track, and then join the counts back to the original UDM SQL output and make that field available as a factor breakout."--end quote That sounds about right I have been working a little with AllData ( a spreadsheet app) that reports the average number of plays per race. Not very useful in itself, but does give a clue as to how many contenders the filters are flagging per race. What I was hoping for, was the ability to build a quick index file made up only of races where A "Single" UDM flagged more than one horse. Then you could run, maybe a Key Factor report, to see if anything stood out that could be used to separate them. Makes sense? Regards, Windoor
| |||||
| jeff 5/24/2011 12:05:16 PM |
What you are asking for makes sense - yes. If this is the analysis you really want to do, then you are going to have to do it outside of JCapper. Here's how I would go about it: Use the Data Window to create data exports (either comma delimited text or Access table) of starters flagged by your single UDM... or do it visually by having the Data Window list out the individual starters flagged by your single UDM... and then perform secondary analysis (outside of JCapper) on the exported data. -jp . ~Edited by: jeff on: 5/24/2011 at: 12:05:16 PM~
| |||||
| Windoor 5/24/2011 7:53:28 PM | --quote: "One advantage to JCapper is that it generates output files (both for historical data and daily handicapped cards) that are completely accessible and can be used as input files for external software. This would enable you to generate reports and do analysis that are outside the scope of the JCapper's data window and calc races output."--end quote Another wonderful thing about the software. It does so many things very well. I don't believe there is anything quite like it out there. I could spend months with the data window, and never run out combinations to try out. The big But: It took me nearly forty years to come with the "factor" list I am using now, and put them in some sense of priority order per type of race. That is, is a way that shows a consistent profit over time. I think I have finally accomplish this. Time will tell. Coming up on twenty months now, with an average odd of nearly 7 to 1. Win percent varies wildly over the months. A low of 22% per race, up to 46% per race (I sometime play more than one to win) in the last quarter of 2009. As I am sure you all know, many things can work for a short time, but even when you get a good hit/win percent, you still need to find value, or a decent average odd. In order to do that, you have to be doing something the general public is not, or wait until they make a big mistake and let a nice odd horse get away from them. Yes, my methods are unusual, but most everything I do, can be expressed in a logical formula that returns true or false, when using the data fields in the PP's. I'm going to keep the program, and probably upgrade to the Platinum program when I have a better understanding of it. There is still much to like about it, even if doesn't allow me to do some research on my personal selections. Regards, Windoor
|
| Reply |
|
Copyright © 2018 JCapper Software back to the JCapper Message Board www.JCapper.com |